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Subject: Traveller-digest V1996 #759
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Traveller-digest      Monday, December 16 1996      Volume 1996 : Number 759



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Power and fuel -- some suggestions
Re: Looking for a copy of GDW's Vampire Fleets
Re: Liz Danforth
Re: Useful Criticism (long) (was Re: Starships)
Re: Useful Criticism (long) (was Re: Starships)
Re: QSDS Spreadsheet Wanted
T4's Graphic Direction...
Fleet Repair Ship
Re: Liz Danforth
RE: Ship Design Formulas 
RE: T4's Graphic Direction... 
TCS construction times - example
Re: 
Re: Wierd Place Names
Re: Joe's List
Re: Props, etc. - was Traveller on IRC
Is T4 Innovative?
Re: Useful Criticism (long) (was Re: Starships)
Re: Useful Criticism (long) (was Re: Starships)
RE: Is T4 Innovative? 
Re: Is T4 Innovative?
RE: Is T4 Innovative? 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:02:52 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Power and fuel -- some suggestions

At 09:42 am 12/13/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi lads!
>
>I have thought about "alternative" refuling and powering up systems.
>
>** To gain electric power, you could use the magnetic force field of a 
>planet by sticking out a divice, which allows magnetig induction of 
>electricity. NASA has aleady experimented with this...

        Yep. Basically, you're the rotor in a VERY big generator. However,
those &^%*^% Conservation laws take away kinetic energy. So you'll slowly
fall out of orbit. OTOH, you can reverse the process--feed electricity INTO
the cable, and you can increase your speed.
- --________________________________________________________________
   Dave Golden                           PGP Public Key available 
   goldendj@usa.net     http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:02:55 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for a copy of GDW's Vampire Fleets

At 02:49 am 12/13/96 -0800, you wrote:
>So, anyone out there have a copy of the TNE supplement Vampire Fleets
>they'd like to sell? 

        NO! YOU CAN HAVE MY TNE STUFF WHEN YOU PRY IT OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD
HANDS! 
(* Computer: calculate target coordinates *) <done> (* Target with c-
asteroid *) <ready> (* FIRE! *)

        Oh, but I've seen one in a local gaming store, I suppose I could
pick it up for you. Also a copy of Brilliant Lances and FF&S, if anybody's
interested.
- --________________________________________________________________
   Dave Golden                           PGP Public Key available 
   goldendj@usa.net     http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:24:01 -0800
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Liz Danforth

On 14 Dec 96 at 22:49, William F. Hostman spewed:

> >Am I the only one who liked Liz Danforth's work?
> No, I do as well. Matter of fact, she's the only one besides WH
> Keith who I have immediate name recall on amongst CT/MT
> illustrators.

Funny you mention Liz Danforth.  She lives here in town.  Her work is 
great, and she's a funny lady to talk to.  She's been doing a lot of 
the illos for M:tG cards, and some of the other CCG's.  She finally 
tied the knot with Mike Stackpole, another name some of the grognards 
may remember.

Mike of course, wrote the GDW novels for Dark Conspiracy, some of the 
better ones in the genre.

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Traveller referee since 1978, Official USENet 
spokesperson for Imperium Games
- ---------------------------------------------------
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." 
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:48:46 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Useful Criticism (long) (was Re: Starships)

At 11:56 pm 12/14/96 -0600, you wrote:
>> No.  Dumb looking....  No.  Again, dumb looking.....  No.  Dumb, again.... 
>> No.  Absolutely not.  Crappy drawing....  No.  If I were Lewis Roberts,
>> I'd be upset that they drew my ship like that....  No.  Again, what a
>> crappy design....  No.  Poor Joe Walsh.  I bet he cried when he saw
>> that his ship looked like a shoe....  No.  If this was a Buck Rodgers
>> game, then maybe....  No.  I expect to see 1930s sparks flying out
>> of the back of this one.  Flash Gordon all the way....  No.  It's a 1955 
>> T-Bird!....  No.  This reminds me of third grade, when the art teacher
>> drew a line on a piece of paper, and you were supposed to draw something
>> from it....  No.  I hope the mercs in that ship are real bad asses,
>> because as soon as they land, they're going to be laughed off the planet....
>> No.  Looks like my radar detector....  No.  Ever see The Spy Who Loved
>> Me?....  No.  I want to like it, but I just can't....  No.  Just don't
>> like it....  No.  Just don't like this one either....  No.  Looks like
>> the close up of the head of a bug....  No.  What's the deal with the
>> smiley face sticking its tongue out in the rear of the craft?....  No.
>> This is the epitome of the 50's retro style that Foss is being accused
>> of by members of the TML.  Looks like a soap box racer.
>
>Is there any useful content whatsoever in the above mishmash?  I don't
>think so, and I doubt most IG staffers would bother to read past the first
>two or three lines.  To the probably relief of many a digest-reader, I'm
>not even going to touch the similarly content-free puffery about the color
>plates.  (Besides, I don't care for many of them either... thoughts on WHY
>below :-)

        I think the idea here was to define, by example, what does and does
not constitute "Travelleresque." And I'm betting he got bored, just as I
did, by repeating "Yes" or "No" over and over again, so he tried to add in a
little humor. YMMV.
- --________________________________________________________________
   Dave Golden                           PGP Public Key available 
   goldendj@usa.net     http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:48:50 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Useful Criticism (long) (was Re: Starships)

At 01:29 pm 12/15/96 -0600, you wrote:

>Which is good -- blocky or curved?  all of one piece or with superstructures,
>outriggers, and outliers?  "textured" or smooth?  These are the issues to
>be addressed, not whether a ship looks like a shoe or a radar detector or
>is just something you "can't say why" you don't like.  (In that case, think
>more before posting, so you can tell us).

        The problem is, you can't narrow it down like this--both textured
AND smooth are acceptable, in different circumstances. Some ships look good
blocky, other times a curved ship looks good. For something like this, the
only way to do it may be by example.
- --________________________________________________________________
   Dave Golden                           PGP Public Key available 
   goldendj@usa.net     http://www.usa.net/~goldendj/default.html

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:07:08 +0100
From: Goran Sjoberg <NGC1201@communique.se>
Subject: Re: QSDS Spreadsheet Wanted

You could check out my page for some spreadsheet stuff..

HTTP://www.communique.se/goran

At 18:23 1996-11-19 -0500, you wrote:
>        Not too long ago, I had a major difficulty with my computer which
>caused me to lose all the info on my hard drive, including a large amount of
>Traveller-oriented material that I hadn't yet backed up. I've recovered most
>of the important stuff, but I can't find a spreadsheet that I used to have
>for doing ships with the Quick Ship Design System. I believe it is located
>on a web site, but I don't know where. If anyone has something like this
>(for MS Works or Excel) could you send it to me, or point me in the right
>direction? Thanks!
>                                Allen
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 17:10:02 -0600
From: John Kovalic <muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com>
Subject: T4's Graphic Direction...

Someone (it may have been Harold) noted:

>        It seems to me that "Travelleresque Art" is really just a euphemism
>for "We want everything to look just like it did in 1980". Never mind that
>this mileau is 1,105 years before the "Classic" Traveller era that so many
>people pine for. We want a Scout/Courier to look the same now and forever...
>
<snip>
>        Sometimes I think that some of the Traveller fans on this list (not
>ALL, not even MOST, but SOME) are, for people who supposedly enjoy
>imaginative pursuits like science fiction and roleplaying games, some of the
>most hidebound people I've ever met.

   Speaking as somebody who's embraced every new incarnation of Traveller
upon its release (the only time I went "retro" to play CT was in
anticipation of T4), I don't think I'm TOO hidebound... :-)

    However, I don't think many people worry too much about the ships
"looking different." In fact, one of my minor beefs has always been seeing
the same ships, hundreds of years apart in different Traveller settings. At
least the Star Trek franchise has ship design changing, but remaining
recognizably "Trekkesque," over the course of a few hundred years. Maybe
the interior Foss black and white ships would have been better received had
the reproduction been better. Or those damn deckplans not been so pig-ugly.
I would have liked a nod to the future, and have had one or two designs
that at least *resembeled* what would become in 2,000 years. But, like I
said, I don't dislike the ships because they're different, *per se*.

    In fact, to take this argument further, *aesthetic ship design* (what
it looks like on the outside ) may not change as much over 2,000 years as
*philosophical ship design* (how it functions and how it was designed to
serve its purpose on the inside). I mean, all of the ships in Starships
seem to me to be the *core* of ships 2,000 years later (that we all know
and love) inside different SHELLS, so the differences are VERY superfical.
Look at the design of a Roman Villa and a modern upper-middle class house,
for example. Both have pretty much the same purpose, but were built under
the constraints of differing social paradigms. The only ship that marks a
different design philosophy in Starships is the (pardon if I get the name
wrong) Secured Trader.

    The "retro" look lies fully in Foss's vehicle and small arms sketches.
And the fact that, so far, the only visual clues we have of this new
Traveller universe come from Foss (good, but mis-used)  and Elmore
(competant but dry).  Hell, a *few* Foss color pics are very
"Travelleresque." But in concentrating on huge World ships, the feel of
Traveller is lost. Where is the tiny Free Trader, fighting it's way out of
a deal gone sour? Where is the solitary Scout Ship, making first contact
with an unknown race?

    "Travelleresque Art" does not, to me, mean endless Kinunirs running
around the galaxy, or every scout ship looking like a door jam, or every
artist trying to copy the fun but scratchy Keith brothers (who did a fair
amount of mediocre work as well). I think we're talking about some
nebulous, hard-to-define "spirit of the game" when we say "Travelleresque".
For example, some British list members may remember an old adventure comic
called, I believe, the Trigan Empire, or somesuch. Its style was pure '70s
schoolboy "True Adventure" comics, but, in a Mileu 0 setting,  I'd consider
it "Travelleresque" AND "Retro" AND completely unlike anything that's been
published so for for Traveller.

   New Foss art can't be cheap - the Black and White pieces have to be
above RPG industry freelance standards. So why not get the word out to
other artists? A few names mentioned are all ones I'd long to see back with
Traveller:

Liz Danforth
Blair Reynolds
Ken Frank
David Dietrick
Donna Barr

But even so, there are a lot of talented newcomers out there who would at
least add some variety to what IG has published so far. IS there an art
director somewhere in the T4 pipeline? Someone with a good base in graphic
design (for the overall look of the line) and who could coordinate a team
of freelancers? I'm guessing no, given the amature deck plans, mis-used
art, "clumped" color plates in Starships and reliance on two artists.

John Kovalic



********************************************************
           "This must be Thursday. I never COULD get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                     - Arthur Dent
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*                                 "Wild Life": a Web comic --
*
*              MUSKRAT CENTRAL: http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/muskrat/
*
********************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 16:16:15 -0800
From: Dave Strebe <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Fleet Repair Ship

Submitted for your perusal and comments.

"Roger Young" Class Fleet Maintanence Ship

Tons:4000             Volume:56,000              Cost:904.38 Mcr
Crew:57               Pass Hi/Med:0              Pass Low:0
Cargo:600 tons        Controls: Mil.Std.TL12
Size Rating:9         Jump Rating:2
Fire Control:4        Manuver: 4G/T-plate
L Battery 1:4,4,3,2   Power Plant Rating 3.25
L Battery 2:4,4,3,2   Fuel: 1337.5 Refine/50 (extra cap for J2&J1)
L Battery 3:4,4,3,2   Sandcasters:10(300)
L Battery 4:4,4,3,2   Dampers:5
L Battery 5:4,4,3,2   Sensors:A10 P4 J10
                      Armour:20                  Structure:28
1 Engineering Shop
1 Vehicle Shop
4 Modular Cutters with 1 construction/repair modules and
1 fuel module each
Cutters are housed in Large Hangers
These ships serve as mobile repair depots for the fleet.Small ships
up to 300 ton can be repaired in the cargo bay. Larger ships are 
repaired using the 50 ton cutters with the repair modules to handle
and move large pieces of equipment or metal. The engineering shop is
equipted to repair or make misc. pieces of ships equiptment. The power
plant produces a surplus that can be transfered to a ship under repair
who's power plant is damaged.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 20:39:31 -0500 (EST)
From: pawn@CAM.ORG (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Liz Danforth

>>>Am I the only one who liked Liz Danforth's work?
>>>- -Joe
>>
>>'Fraid so, Joe. Just like I'm (apparently) the only person who thinks Donna
>>Barr's Traveller Book cartoons were brilliant.
>>Glenn G.

Jeff Kazmierski replies:

>Um... not entirely.  I've always liked Danforth's art, and I thought Barr's
>cartoons were hilarious.  Especially the picture of the starship porthole
>with a hammer next to it and a sign saying "In case of fire, break
>glass"...

Actually, that one's not by Donna Barr. That's by Loren Wiseman and John
Morrison (presumably Wiseman made it up and Morrison drew it).

Credit where due, and all.

Glenn G.

- -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                      <pawn@cam.org>
Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
    "That which does not kill us makes us stranger."
                  -- Trevor Goodchild

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:12:54 -0500 (EST)
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
Subject: RE: Ship Design Formulas 

In Reply to Your Message of Sun, 15 Dec 1996 11: 15:50 CST
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:12:54 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@brahms.udel.edu>

: Responses to your responses...
: 
: > From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@brahms.udel.edu>
: 
: > > see 2 pages of formulas rather than 18 pages of tables.  Maybe with some
: > This was done in Fire, Fusion, & Steel.  I think only three or four of
: 
: True, but most of the formulas in FF&S were for the gun design, or the
: alternate technology.  Besides, I don't see anything in FF&S that even comes
: close to the pages and pages of nothing but tables that T4:Starships has.
: 
: > The formulas are thought out enough.  The only problem is that all the
: > components are integrated to the 5000t limit.  You'd probably be better
: 
: If the formulas are thought out well, why not publish them?  For example, a
: quick analysis of the SSDS jump drive table shows the following relationships

I don't get the impression that you were around a lot when FFS what the
design sequence for Traveller.  Lots (and that's an *understatement*) of
people complained that whereas before they could do everything with a
pocket calculator and a bunch of tables (Book 2-Starships, Book 5-High
Guard, and the MT desgin sequence), you now needed at least a math
minor, a good understanding of abstract algebra, and a spreadsheet being
run on a Cray 3 to design a ship!

So, what to do?  Take FFS, put it into table form, leave out the
equations that people didn't want to see in the first place, and viola
you have the SSDS.  Make it even simpler and you have QSDS.  People
raved and much praise was lauded.  Apparently, there is something to be
said for being parsimonious.

You could ask Dave Golden and Guy Garnett for the specifics and see if
you can derive equations.  However, if I recall correctly, a lot of
individual components from FFS have been lumped together into packages
now and thus may not be able to scale well in an equational sense.

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:27:47 -0500 (EST)
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
Subject: RE: T4's Graphic Direction... 

In Reply to Your Message of Sun, 15 Dec 1996 17: 10:02 CST
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:27:46 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@brahms.udel.edu>

: other artists? A few names mentioned are all ones I'd long to see back with
: Traveller:
: 
: Liz Danforth
: Blair Reynolds
: Ken Frank
: David Dietrick
: Donna Barr

Uhm, John, you forgot to mention Rob Caswell.  8(

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:55:06 -0500
From: Thad Coons <104765.503@compuserve.com>
Subject: TCS construction times - example

Michael Nutt wrote:


> It was 20,000 ton cruisers he mentioned... IMO, not *quite* big enough, >
but I have pretty radical ideas in building cruisers, at least using 
> the High Guard rules.

<snip>

> Well, the TCS shipyard capacity numbers were directly proprtional to the
> population of the manufacturing world. 

<snip>

> So, in essence, you're proposing a rate proportional to population, as >
well?  
> I will concede that basing construction times
> *solely* on displacement is probably an oversimplification... but it
> seems a reasonable and workable approximation to me.

My system would have industrial employees going up with the population
(though not necessarily directly proportional), while TCS has shipyard
tonnage directly proportional to the population. 

I think the biggest difference between what you are using and what I
propose is that you are using a system based on the *tonnage* of a ship,
while mine is based on the *cost*. Military vessels cost more than civilian
vessels (weapons, armor), of the same tonnage and the cost goes up somewhat
faster than the size. If the benefits go up faster than the cost, it's
still economical, but it shouldn't be easy or cheap.

I guess it comes down to personal preferences, but I don't like the high
construction rates that TCS can give you for heavy military craft. 

Thad Coons










   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 03:54:46 GMT
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: 

At 11:31 PM 12/14/96 +1100, you wrote:
>Dear Stuart -

>1.      Digest #16. Includes subsector key, sector library data, adventure
>on Irlaggur (Urlaqqash/Reavers Deep 2624), Irlaggur library data, Urlaqqash
>subsector map, communication (ie. no xboats!) routes.

Actually, that's Urlaggash, with 2 "g" 's. Digest Group copied
a typo in Far Traveller (which replaced the lower case g's with
q's. Pilot's guide to Drexilthar Subsector uses g's in the
couple of places it mentions the subsector.


>
>2.      Far Traveller #1. Includes sector library data, full
>description/stats/maps/etc etc for Roakhoi (Ea 0404), Ea subsector map.
>
>3.      Far Traveller #2. Includes more library data, full
>description/stats/maps/etc etc for Rejhappur (Scotian Deep 0408), Scotian
>Deep subsector map.
>
>4.      High Passage #4. Includes full stats (Striker v1) on the Caledon
>Highlander merc unit.
>
>5.      Aslan Mercenary Ships. This boxed set is all about ships from the
>Roaa (Uhtaa 0706) shipyards, plus the Teahleikhoi ("Soldiers of the Falling
>Night") Aslan regiment. Through the descriptive text, adventure backgrounds,
>etc, you can gather a lot of info about the political power games that occur
>in this sector.
>
>6.      Drexilthaar. Somewhere around are full stats for this subsector (a
>"Pilot's Guide"). I *think* this is a separate module.

A Pilot's Guide to the Drexilthar Subsector, published by Gamelords,
by WH Keith.


>7.      The Traveller Chronicle #6, 7. A lot of info. The Aoreriyya region
>(Ea, Drexilthaar, Eakoi, Drinsaar subsectors) at 1115, 1125-30,  1200. FULL
>regional Library Data!! Gralyn Union data. Gralyn stats (Drinsaar/RD 1735).
>Pilot's Guides to Caledon subsector (overview #6, info for every world  in #7).
>
>In some ways, Reaver's Deep is more fleshed out than the Spinward Marches!
>Thank the prolific Keith brothers who wrote nearly all of this stuff
>(actually, can't think of anything they didn't write!).
>
>...BTW, I created an MT deep trader (J-3) that I called the Scotian
>Deep-class. Externally, it looks identical to the Subsidised Merchant...
>
>...to Brian Borich - I was wrong. The last thing I've seen from the Keiths
>(J. Andrew) is the Caledon Pilot's Guide, in TTC#7 (1995).
>________________________________________________________________________
>Hyphen (David Jaques-Watson)                         davidjw@pcug.org.au
>http://www.pcug.org.au/~davidjw
>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 96 22:09:38 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Wierd Place Names

On 12/15/96 at 10:19 AM,  PAUL WILLIAMS <p.d.williams@lancaster.ac.uk>
said:


> Ok, all the others are wierd, but Chipping Norton? Does this mean
> something to North Americans that we Brits need to be told about, 'cos it
> sounds pretty normal to me. 

Who is Norton, what is he chipping and why?  Other than that, it's
perfectly normal.  <g>

Eris

ps. All this reminds me of "Red Level"...neither red nor level.


- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 23:49:35 -0500
From: jpb@miamisci.org (Joe Block)
Subject: Re: Joe's List

In article <9611141459373218@mychelle.other-plane.miamisci.org>, "Joseph E.
Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Dec 1996, Mused wrote:
> 
> > That Computer Guy wrote:
> > > That said, I will mention that hands down, bar none, Rob Caswell *is*
> > > Traveller art.  Everything he did was simply beautiful and well laid
> > > out.  And his equipment drawings were spectacular to boot!
> > 
> > Add Blair Reynolds to the list of artists that ARE Traveller
> 
> Am I the only one who liked Liz Danforth's work?

No.  I'd like to also add the artist for the weapons in Guns Guns Guns.  I
also like the guy who did the CORPS gm screen, although I'm not sure if I'd
say it was travelleresque.

Joe Block <jpb@miamisci.org>

Incoming fire has the right of way.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 22:05:15 -0800
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Props, etc. - was Traveller on IRC

On 11 Dec 96 at 13:27, Suzette C. Dollar spewed:

> Really?  I'm currently playing the Traveller Adventure..... I'll
> have to ask my GM why we haven't gotten any of these required props.
>  I remember finding a wallet, but it was described to us,  news
> bulletins were read to us,  etc.   Sounds more fun your way. 
> 
> Suz
> 
> (Ducking because she expects to be severely beat about the head with
> a large trout after Stu reads this <g>)
> 

A little behind on reading the Mailing list, obviously.

Stu is planning on bringing at least 1 prop to the next session of 
the Traveller Adventure...   A .1c relativistic rock to drop on Suz.

Stu


Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Traveller referee since 1978, Official USENet 
spokesperson for Imperium Games
- ---------------------------------------------------
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." 
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 00:59:39 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Is T4 Innovative?

I ask the question, "is T4 innovative?" because I'm trying to think
of some aspect of the game that is not just a recycling of something
else.  Could the truly hardcore fans of T4 among us list those things
that T4 does that have never been done before, or are being done in a
unique way?  I was discussing T4 with a friend, and came up empty.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 00:27:00 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Useful Criticism (long) (was Re: Starships)

On 15 Dec 96 at 13:29, Chepe wrote:


> IG, and Foss, have little reason to change, and little help for doing so,
> if merely told "it sucks."  Rather, they need "a, b, and c are inappropriate
> for the genre because of x.  More of d would be sensible.  How about
> showing us what e looks like?"  

Look.  What I tried to say is simple.  I don't know why you find it 
so hard to understand.  

These are the pics that I think are Travelleresque, and these are the 
pics I think are not Travelleresque.

It is nothing more complicated than that.  I was not trying to be an 
artist and suggest new ways of drawing the ships--rather I wanted to 
give examples of what I like and don't like.  I did that.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 00:27:00 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Useful Criticism (long) (was Re: Starships)

On 15 Dec 96 at 15:48, David J. Golden wrote:


>         I think the idea here was to define, by example, what does and does
> not constitute "Travelleresque." And I'm betting he got bored, just as I
> did, by repeating "Yes" or "No" over and over again, so he tried to add in a
> little humor. YMMV.

Thank you, David.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 01:25:56 -0500 (EST)
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
Subject: RE: Is T4 Innovative? 

In Reply to Your Message of Mon, 16 Dec 1996 00: 59:39 EST
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 01:25:56 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@strauss2.udel.edu>

: I ask the question, "is T4 innovative?" because I'm trying to think
: of some aspect of the game that is not just a recycling of something
: else.  Could the truly hardcore fans of T4 among us list those things
: that T4 does that have never been done before, or are being done in a
: unique way?  I was discussing T4 with a friend, and came up empty.

Does it need to be innovative, or just good?  Sometimes gimmicks just
mask flaws.

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 00:29:33 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Is T4 Innovative?

On 16 Dec 96 at 0:59, Harold D. Hale wrote:

> I ask the question, "is T4 innovative?"

I don't think anything about T4 is innovative.  As a matter of fact, 
the rules are much simpler than I am used to using.  But, it is a 
return to CT, and I like that.   I really, really, like that.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 23:32:27 -0800
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: RE: Is T4 Innovative? 

On 16 Dec 96 at 1:25, That Computer Guy spewed:

>Does it need to be innovative, or just good?  Sometimes gimmicks just
>mask flaws.

Worst still, sometimes the gimmicks ARE the flaws.  

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Traveller referee since 1978, Official USENet 
spokesperson for Imperium Games
- ---------------------------------------------------
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." 
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #759
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